Goldenthal: “As far as engineers go, I work exclusively with two people: Joel Iwataki and Steve McLaughlin. Principally Joel Iwataki, and I’ve never worked with anyone else on an extended basis. Joel has worked with me on just about every film project, with the exception of one or two. Both Joel and Steve have learned from each other and learned about my sound as well. Both of them worked on ‘Titus’, but Steve to a lesser extent.”
How did you get involved into engineering film scores?
Actually, I started out as a commercial fisherman in Alaska. I had a small boat and I would fish in the summer and study music in the winters. Eventually I started composing for documentaries and educational films; to save money I’d engineer my own projects. After I moved to California I became involved in a composers group and friends of mine like George Clinton would hear my scores and say, ‘Hey could you record my next score?’ So along the way I’ve done some work with Paul Chihara, George, and Craig Huxley. Just recently I worked with John Corigliano and I’ve also worked with Michael Kamen. Steve McLaughlin, who was Michael Kamen’s engineer, was the one who really taught me how to record orchestra.
The first couple of films I did with Elliot other people recorded but I mixed, including “Pet Sematary” and “Alien 3”. When it came time to do “Demolition Man” I couldn’t do it because I was writing a musical produced here in L.A., so Steve McLaughlin came on and recorded it. The next couple of Elliot’s films Steve and I worked together as recording engineer and mixer. Steve is just a brilliant engineer and had done a lot of orchestral work with Michael Kamen. He was so generous with all of his knowledge and showed me how to do it. I owe a huge debt to Steve.
Where did you meet Elliot?
I was working at The Enterprise in L.A., recording “Knotts Landing” and television movies. I happened to be doing a final mix, a dub of a B-movie, when the studio manager said, “You know, there’s someone from New York who wants to mix a film here. He’s looking for an engineer and a studio; do you want to talk to him?” I assumed it was just a producer or director that had a dub to do, but it was Elliot. A New York guy, I could tell he was a character. He started asking me about my past and other personal questions. He said, “What do you like to do for a hobby?” I said, “I like to write music.” He says, “What composers do you like?” I said, “I love the film music to ‘Altered States’; that’s my favorite score. I’ve been listening to the album to do takedowns so I can figure out what Corigliano’s doing compositionally and how he orchestrates.” Elliot responded, “I just studied for seven years with John Corigliano; he’s my mentor. He basically gave me my start in Hollywood.” That’s how we got connected.
Which scores of Elliot’s that you’ve worked on stand out in your mind?
First of all, there was “Drugstore Cowboy”. It was a whole new sound and way of composing to me. It was so primal and a great introduction to Elliot. This was the second score I worked on with him. Continuing along that vein, I also thought “Alien 3” was a real breakthrough score, in terms of introducing this stream of consciousness, this primal orchestral writing. Some of the techniques that he was having the orchestra do were so new, it wasn’t really clear looking at the way it was written on paper. So he’d have to go over to the individual sections and sing the parts to them. He would use verbal descriptions along with his feelings about the part to communicate with. It’s not like the normal melody we think of; these are such different types of techniques. He likes to go back and talk to the individual players about what he’s trying to do. Together with his deep respect for the players, skill, and artistry, along with his sense of humor, he always wins over the orchestra players’ hearts. Also, “Cobb” was another special film; a more classical compositional style.
Then I really like “Batman Forever” because it was so fun, especially the material he wrote for Jim Carrey’s character, Mr. E. The second Joel Schumacher film we did, “A Time To Kill”, was another whole new landscape of sounds working with the harmonica player Howard Levy. He plays a regular Marine Band harmonica, but he can play it chromatically. He could play bebop with his harmonica; it’s like magic. He’s got such an incredible tongue and Elliot would always joke with him about having a million girlfriends. “Batman and Robin” is another really interesting score, just incredible.
With “In Dreams” there was some amazing things Elliot did with the guitar orchestra; this was referred to as the Deaf Elk orchestra. These are the guys who played in groups like Fire Hazard and would play tremolo on one string or tune all their strings to one note here. They stand there with these gigantic amplifiers; even if you walk into the room when no one’s playing and the amps are sitting there idling away, it just sends chills down your bones from the power of these amplifiers. When they played, the noise was so deafening that the only way they could conduct them to start and stop was by turning the lights on and off. They’d stand there so still, playing the guitars with this huge sound coming out, that Elliot said they reminded him of deaf elk, so he called them the Deaf Elk Orchestra.
Finally, now, “Titus” is really my favorite score. It’s just incredible; there’s so much deep music in it. Starting with Shakespeare, it was such a moving play, and Julie’s work was incredible. I’d seen a few of Julie’s theater pieces, but I really hadn’t seen her work with actors of this magnitude or depth. It’s really entertaining; there are so many different styles of music here. It’s all of Elliot’s styles rolled into one.
What do you find special in Elliot as a composer?
On one hand, it’s that stream of consciousness or primal way of writing where he doesn’t seem to be hampered by any physical or earthly restraints. It’s just purely from God to his mind to our soul. You don’t sense any of the technique that comes in; you don’t feel him trying. It’s pure expression to me. It takes incredible technique to do that because he can speak in so many different styles and make it sound so real.
The other thing that really struck me – there’s a great example of this in the “Titus” score – are what we called the plea cues. There are a number of scenes where different people make a plea, either for their life or for their children’s life, starting with the Jessica Lange character. It’s a passacaglia starting with a bass melody and then another line enters, which sounds like a harmonization, but turns out to be a counterline. It’s basically these two lines moving very slowly that are brilliantly orchestrated. There’s something about that simple eloquence that’s so deeply moving. Like in “Golden Gate”, when Elliot writes an eloquent simple line, it seems so real, true, and unforced. It’s really amazing to me, and one of the things I most admire about him.
What have you learned from Elliot?
One of the things I learned is to go for the real emotion, to look for the true emotion of the scene. I’d recently composed an independent film score and I was having a hard time getting a handle on it, so he told me he was having a lot of trouble with “Butcher Boy”; and after trying many things he or Neil Jordan rejected, he finally came around to the idea that Francie Brady, the boy, was writing the music. You should think of it in terms of what the music would sound like in Francie Brady’s head. That gave me the insight to go into the director’s head of my film project. We just weren’t seeing eye-to-eye because we didn’t have common musical tastes. I realized from Elliot’s suggestion that I should think of it as if that director were writing the music.
The other thing is not to compromise. I found out very clearly after working so closely with Julie on “Titus” that they both just do not compromise. They’ll stay up many nights and it often seems torturous just going over something because it’s not right. Sometimes I don’t understand what he’s going for, but I learned if I stick with it, there’s some point or reason that he doesn’t want to give up, and it’s usually for a good reason. This definitely shows in the result; it’s not easy creating these new soundscapes, and he demands the same kind of perfection from everyone involved.
Do you enjoy working with Elliot?
Over the years I’ve grown to really love Elliot as a person and human being. He’s one of the most honorable people I know and one of my most beloved friends now. The other thing is that he’s so intelligent. Often we’ll go into what we call the ‘Goldenthal Lectures’. He’s got such an incredible encyclopedic knowledge of things. He reads and remembers a lot, and he’s always researching some different oddball subject, whether it be the Kabala, ancient Roman history, or anything about composers and European music. Also American music and jazz. I just love it; we often finish our early mornings after a session getting back into the ‘Goldenthal Lectures’ series. To cap it all off, Elliot is the commensurate joke teller. He lives to tell jokes.
Are you going to work with Elliot indefinitely?
I hope so, but even if I don’t I still hope to stay his friend and continue the ‘Goldenthal Lectures’.