Sergio Bassetti, Jean-Claude Petit, and Armando Trovajoli. Bassetti talks release schedules and dealing with poor sound sources. Petit talks about how real composers write music, as opposed to play it. Trovajoli discusses the trials of working with a director.
SERGIO BASSETTI
The first question is a formality. Where and when were you born?
Why don’t we talk about Intermezzo; it is much more interesting. I was born in Rome in 1952 and Intermezzo was born in Rome in 1984. I started as an independent, cooperating with CAM to make the Phoenix label, and then I started my own label, Intermezzo, with Maurizio Butazzoni in 1984. We had about 30 issues on vinyl LPs. And then in 1994 we made up our mind that it was time to change our habits. Three LPs in a year was too small business to keep us alive. So we decided to increase the rate of releases. Since the end of March 1995 we have established Intermezzo Media. The society is in Milan, not Rome anymore. Since that day we have released a good number of CDs, some on our own label Legend, some on the RCA label in the OST series. As you probably know, OST has existed since 1991. But we had an arrangement with RCA, and they gave us the exclusive rights to distribute the records (CDs) because Milano Dischi, the former distributor, was not satisfactory. Maurizio left Milano Dischi in order to establish our new society, Intermezzo media. That is a little bit of history of our label.
How did you get involved with film music?
It is a very long story; one issue of the magazine is not enough. When I first saw “How the West Was Won”, a Cinerama film, I was so surprised at the strength of the music that I looked for the original soundtrack on record. I had a good experience with another film, “Les animaux”, a French film by Frederic Rossic having music by Maurice Jarre. There was a beautiful waltz and a breathtaking pavane that he had written for this documentary film. Since that day I have fallen in love with film music. But thoughtless love; instinct only. I could not judge it. I could only say “I like it” or “I do not like it.” Then year by year I started listening to more film music, trying to get an idea of its history. Going back to the silent screen era, to the ’20s and ’30s, knowing more about great film composers from Hollywood, the French, German, and the Italian cinema. Now I have much clearer ideas about film music, and my love for film music became my business. I was involved with record productions, radio broadcasts, writing articles and essays, organizing branches of festivals devoted to film music. So the joy became work, and now both sides live together. I love film music; not all film music, but I work in the field. I think this is a path many other independent film music producers have followed. Nick Redman for instance started as a film music buff; Douglas Fake also. And I think the ones who started as film music buffs are the more smart, competent, and intelligent record producers. I do not trust people who issue rock compilations; that is business only. It has nothing to do with film music. It has nothing to do with love for this medium.
What are the plans for the future?
We have agreements with publishers like RCA, of course; Gypsy and Emergency Music, the publishers of Pino Donaggio and Nicola Piovani. We are trying to have more agreements with film music on radio. Moreover we are going to join projects with Point Records and GDM (Gianni Dell’Orso) Music. That means we will work more with Claudio Fuiano. He has very good ideas concerning next issues. I hope we will be able to release some important soundtracks on CD. As for the near future, we’ll release the score from the first Giuseppe Tornatore film. The film was shot one year before “Cinema Paradiso”. The title is “Il camorista”, a tough violent Mafia film with Ben Gazarra. The music is by Nicola Piovani. It was released on LP many years ago, but actually nobody has the LP; it is one of the most sought-after collector items by Piovani. The music is worth being on CD. Before that we will release “Doctor Faustus” coupled with “Francis of Assisi”, both scores by Mario Nascimbene. Then I think we are going to release a score by Pino Donaggio for an Italian thriller, a very important one; and more. On RCA OST, the first release will be “I pugni in tasca” (1965)/”I basilischi” (1963)/”Gente di rispetto” (1975) together; three scores on one CD with music by Ennio Morricone. These were never before released except a few tracks from “I basilischi” [And one track from “I pugni in tasca”. – ST]. I think it’s a good project. We will do much more in the future, because I spoke with Morricone and he should be glad to have the complete score to “Un uomo a meta” on CD. It is very difficuilt music, very contemporary music, but it is worth having on CD. Maybe together with scores like “Prima della rivoluzione” (1964) by Bernardo Bertolucci, or the complete score from “Uccellacci e uccelini” (1965) by Pasolini and much more. We have a long list of RCA OST planning to come.
Are all the master tapes at hand, or do you have to search for them?
No, all the mentioned titles are in our hands or coming soon. We recently had trouble with tapes from our recent release on Legend, “The Red Tent” by Morricone, because they were in horrible condition. Sagittario, the label that issued the LP in Italy in 1970, does not exist anymore; that’s why we had to look for the tapes. Maybe Paramount Records has the original tapes [they issued an LP in the U.S. – ST] but we could not get in touch with them. So we had to take the music from vinyl; some from vinyl, some from tapes, unfortunately. The sound is not that good, but it is beautiful music, and it is a document anyway. I think it will be the last time that we use vinyl. We will not do it anymore; it is noisy. At least we used nice artwork on the booklet, but I feel a little ashamed for the quality; maybe I care too much. I don’t know; we’ll see. I have been wrong not to write a warrant in the booklet; I had to tell it clear. So I hope the readers of FSM will understand. [Sergio would be dead meat, but Sijbold since wrote me that Sergio found the original masters to “The Red Tent” and will reissue the CD with better sound. – LK]
Your CDs are also for sale in the U.S. Who is the distributor there, so people who are interested can ask the record shop to order them?
The CDs are marketed by Albany Records, and they are doing a good job. We did not get complaints. The CDs are for sale in most major record stores like Tower Records. And in this period the CDs “Two Mules for Sister Sara” coupled with “Days of Heaven” by Morricone should be out; also “Johnny Yuma” coupled with “Arizona Colt” by Francesco De Masi.
JEAN-CLAUDE PETIT
Jean-Claude Petit is a French composer with an interesting classical style. His breakthrough came with Claude Berri’s film “Jean de Florette” and the second part of the story, “Manon de Sources”. He used the overture from Giuseppe Verdi’s “La forza del destino” as material for the main theme a lovely piece which worked for the film since opera had something to do with the story. Petit is known for his large orchestral scores; he is a good composer with a high-level education.
A few French film titles to link with the composer are “L’ile” (1987, François Letterrier), a kind of “Mutinty on the Bounty” film; “Deux” (1988, Claude Zidi), a film with Gerard Depardieu as a composer falling in love; “Le retour des Mousequetarires” (1989, Richard Lester), a three musketeers film with Michael York and Christopher Lee; and “Cyrano de Bergerac” (1990, Jean-Paul Rappeneau), also starring Gerard Depardieu.
To start at the beginning, when and where were you born?
I was born in France 20 kilometers from Paris in 1943.
What was your education?
I studied at the conservatory in Paris. I studied harmony, counterpoint, composition, everything. After that I played jazz piano with Dexter Gordon and with American players. Then I wrote arrangements for French singers, and since 1981 I have composed for the cinema and the theatre too, but mostly for the cinema.
How did you become a film composer?
I was an arranger, and in 1981 I met Rene Cleitman (the producer of “Cyrano de Bergerac”). He said, “Ah, Jean-Claude, I know you. I am a new producer, and my first film is “Vice la social”, and I think it is a good opportunity for you to write the music.” But before I was an arranger for other film composers like Michel Magne.
Is it always your choice to write big scores for full orchestra? I mean, it is expensive, and most directors want to cut down on the music expense because they are already over-budget.
I don’t have a choice. I want and I don’t want to, because in France generally the music for TV and cinema is with a low budget and a synthesizer. I don’t like that. In general the composer doesn’t write the music, but only plays the music, and that is not right. I want to write music, and my choice for that is a large orchestra. And sure, for a large orchestra it is necessary to write music. I have the choice, because with a big film in France I have no problem with the money. No problem with “Jean de Florette”, no problem with “Cyrano de Bergerac”. I don’t know why; probably because all the people know I write for big orchestra. It is expensive, but if they call me, they know. No problem!
Do you orchestrate and conduct yourself?
Yes, I conduct my own music, because I think, if you write music, you must conduct.
How long did it take you to write “Jean de Florette” parts one and two? It is a six-hour film, and beautiful!
To write the music, maybe two months. But before that I go to the shooting of the film, I talk with the director, I play some themes, we talk a lot about it. Generally I write one month for a film, but for a long film such as “Jean de Florette/Manon de Sources” I need two months.
How was the collaboration between you and Claude Berri?
It is finished now, my collaboration with Claude Berri; it was only for “Jean de Florette” and “Manon de Sources”, and after for “Uranus”. For “Uranus” I had many problems with Claude Berri. When you see the film you hear a little music, only six minutes, but I composed one hour. Claude Berri was not happy, and I was not happy. And I said to Claude Berri, It is not correct, it is not good. And I don’t like “Uranus”. After, Claude Berri asked an accordionist to write the music for “Germinal”. But he is only an accordionist, so the film has only accordion music.
The “La forza del destino” (Giuseppe Verdi) theme worked wonderfully. Was it your idea, or did the director Claude Berri suggest it?
Claude Berri asked me, “Jean-Claude, please, I want an opera theme. But what, I don’t know.” So I chose “La forza del destino” because the wife of Jean de Florette was an opera singer. Claude Berri liked it, and he said, “O.K., you write the music for the film,” and it was my first great film. It was a great change for me. I thank you very much, Mr. Guiseppe Verdi.
Another hit film was “Cyrano de Bergerac”, a piece of art. One question about the score has burned on my lips for four years: in the film and on the CD is the theme ‘La porte de Nesle’. It is equal to the “Batman” theme by Danny Elfman.
It is not the same music; it is a moment of one minute. It is the theme of “Cyrano”, but the form is like the theme of “Batman”. It is a private joke between Jean-Paul Rappeneau and me, because Rappeneau told me, “Oh, the music from the new ‘Batman’ film is very good.” And I said to Jean-Paul, “I can do exactly the same, but with my theme.” It was a joke, but Jean-Paul said, “I want it in the film.” And I said, No, it was only a joke. But it was my theme, so it got into the film. It was a private joke. Now it is a problem for me, but it was a good question.
What is your favorite film score?
I don’t know. “The Mission” by Morricone is very good. I also like some Bernard Herrmann, many scores by John Williams, and also many scores of my friend Gabriel Yared, like “La lune dans carniveau”.
What is the next film you will do?
I write for a great series for the BBC called “Seaforth”. After that, I write the music for the new Jean-Paul Rappeneau film “Le luce sans l’etoile” with Juliette Pinoche. It is a very expensive film; the most expensive in the history of France. I have to write a lot of music for it. I will write it in December and January and record it in February and March 1995.
ARMANDO TROVAJOLI
For those who know nothing about this film composer, a short introduction: Armando Trovajoli was born in Rome on September 2, 1917. He took his diploma at the conservatory Accademia di Santa Cecilia in Rome and began to make a name for himself immediately after World War II as an important jazz musician. In about 1953, he began an interesting career as a composer, arranger, and conductor of film scores. He took lessons from Angel Francesco Lavagnino. Trovajoli created a style of his own, and he is well-known in Italy as one of the greatest composers for the Italian theatre and film industries.
To name a few films that he composed for: “La ciociara” (1960, Vittorio de Sica) and the remake for television in 1989 by Dino Risi; “Italiani brava gente” (1964, De Santis); “Seven Golden Men” (1965, Marco Vicario); “Matrimonio all’Italiana” (1964, Vittorio de Sica) ; “Ieri. Oggi. Domani” (1964, Vittorio de Sica). But he is mostly known for his collaboration with Errore Scola. Like Fellini/Rota, Ciciogini/De Sica, Fusco/Antonioni and Morricone/Leone (or in American terms, Herrmann/Hitchcock, Williams/Spielberg) there is a link between Trovajoli and Scola. From “Se permettet, pariliamo di donne” (1964) until “Mario, Maria e Mario” (1993) they worked together.
How did your collaboration start with Ettore Scola?
My collaboration started with the film “Se permettet, parliamo di donne” in 1964, an Italian comedy. Scola was looking for a musician and maybe because he was looking for a kind of jazz musician, not strictly jazz but a jazz style, modern, with a flavor of an American style, we started. Until today we work together; even here in Valencia, Scola and I are discussing the new film that comes out in November.
Does Scola give you instructions on what kind of music he wants, or does he trust your experience and wait to see what you come up with?
No no, he said this morning that we find the style and mood of the music together, the leitmotif. Sometimes he likes it, sometimes not. Most of the time he does not like it, but I insist and insist. And then he says, “Oh yes, all right. This is the right music.” It is strange. But he is not a musician, and in his mind is the idea how to direct the movie. He has an idea in mind for the atmosphere in the movie.
What is your favorite film that you scored?
There are many, but in the first period with Ettore Scola I liked very much “C’eravamo tanto amati”, but at the same time “Dramma della gelosia”. I also love “Bruti sporchi e cattivi”. It is adorable because it is dirty. I also like films by Dino Risi like “Profumo di donne” and “Telefoni bianchi”.
Could you tell the readers of FSM a funny anecdote of your career as a film composer?
All the time the director and the producer say to me, “Are you ready for the music?” But I did not write a note yet of music. “But we need it tomorrow or at least the day after tomorrow.” They are in a hurry. “Hurry, hurry, Armando, hurry, because the producer must use the music with the film, and the banks give money,” etc. etc. The minimum time they gave me to compose was stupid. It was for a film “Anna” by Alberto Lattuada. I met him in Rome at Piazza di Spagna and he asked me, “I need the music tomorrow at noon. We are just finishing the last shot here with Silvana Mangano.” I said, “O.K., what time tomorrow?” “At eleven o’clock.” So I left him, wrote some music, a songwriter wrote some lyrics. I went to the radio station for the recording with a small group, and the next day at eleven I was at the studio and said, “Please, this is the music. I don’t know if you like it or not.” And they replied, “Oh, yes, it is beautiful.” That was the fastest score I had to write. Strange, because if they start to shoot a film, there is plenty of time. Here they wait until the last day and say, “Give me the music tomorrow.”
What was the most difficult film to write for?
Maybe in a simple way “Italiana brava gente”, because during the war I was a soldier in Greece. There were people who had to go to Russia, and they almost died of cold, snow, and ice. It was a tragedy. They were wearing mess-tins with the uniforms, and spoons were tinkling against them during the marching. And when I saw the film I knew, this is the sound of the army. So I composed a tune with the mess-tins sound in it. First 1, 2, 4, 10, 50, 100, 1,000, 100, 10, 4, 1, nobody. The music had to support that sound, like the wind or the sea. It was the most suggestive soundtrack that I ever wrote.
I fell in love with the score “La nuit de Varenes” (aka “Il mondo nuovo”) by Scola (1982). I discovered it was similar to the music from “Il fornaretto di Venezia”, a 1963 film by Duccio Tessari (recently reissued on CAM CD CSE 113). I never saw that film, but was there in the film any similarity to the Scola film?
Between “Il fornaretto di Venezia” and “La nuit de Varenes” is about 30 years. I don’t remember if the music was the same; the films were completely different. The times of the stories were different. When I am back in Rome I will listen to both to see if they are the same. I don’t remember that I copied myself.
Who are your favorite film composers?
First comes Alex North, now John Williams, even Quincy Jones. He is a friend of mine. There are many. I liked “The Piano” by Nyman. In Italy I liked Nino Rota, now Morricone, Piccioni. There is a lot of talent around.
What is your next film to score, and could you tell something about it?
It is the new Scola film “La storia di una giovane povero (The Story of a Young Poor Man)”. The film comes out in November. Schola wants me to write an evergreen theme like “La vie en rose” or something like that. I cannot say more because I don’t know yet. When Scola and I meet we talk for a day or so. Sometimes after three weeks he says, “I don’t like that. Start again, change the music.”
Here in Valencia you conducted a concert of your works for films, mostly Scola. Do you like to give a concert?
Normally, I don’t like to play or to conduct in public. I like to play at my house, or at a friend’s house after dinner. We eat, drink, have some music.