Although John Scott spends most of his time living and composing in London, a desire to work more in the United States has brought him to Hollywood with increasing frequency. Mr. Scott has secured an excellent film music agency to represent him which finds him assignments and has even rented a lovely home in the Hollywood Hills (mere blocks away from Miklos Rozsa’s mansion) which gives him more of an American ‘base’. The following interview was held in May 1985 at Scott’s Hollywood home while he was working on “Clan of the Cave Bear”, a film that was eventually scored by Alan Silvestri. Scott was optimistic at the time of the interview about “Cave Bear”, but he felt there was some disagreement among the film’s seven producers on what was needed musically. After Scott made a ‘demo’ tape of various themes he’d written for the film, the “Cave Bear” producers decided instead to hire Silvestri, who was then hot off “Back to the Future”. During the course of our 2½ interview (followed by a leisurely 3-hour lunch), I found John Scott to be softspoken, gentlemanly, and quite eager to answer any questions. Although we often got sidetracked during the course of the interview relating various unprintable filmmusic anecdotes, I do feel the following conversation shows Mr. Scott’s honest views on his specific scores and feelings on film music in general. Most recently Scott has scored “The Whistle Blower” starring Michael Caine, and the 4-hour U.S. mini-series “Harem” starring Omar Sharif and Ava Gardner. See SCQ Vol. 4 No. 13 for John Scott’s film/discography. – DK Let’s first talk about your background and how you got into film composing. I was born in Bristol, England, on November 1, 1930. My father was a policeman who wanted to be a professional musician, but because of the Depression he took a more secure job in the police force. (He did get to play in the police band.) He had learned music in the army and when I was 14 years old I joined the army and received a very practical education in music – more playing music than writing it. My ambition was to be a legitimate clarinet player – and I loved that sound – but I ended up playing saxophone. I would buy a new jazz record every week – at 78 rpm at that time – and later formed a 14-piece band for which I did arrangements. When I got out of the army at 22, I joined some touring bands. I was with Ambrose, Ted Heath, and got notice for my arrangements. Later I did arranging and conducting for pop singers like Cilla Black, Matt Monro, Tom Jones, and the group The Hollies. That led to writing music for music libraries which were used for TV, films, and radio. I wrote a lot of library music. When the musicians’ strike was on in the U.S. several years ago, they used quite a bit of my library stuff for the TV series “Dallas” – music I’d written years before. I had the signature tunes for many news shows, including one that Barbara Walters used for a long time. I also did many commercials and in 1965 came my first feature film, “A Study in Terror”. Weren’t you a studio musician for a while, playing on many other composers’ filmscores? Yes, in the late 1950s and early ’60s. I played often for Henry Mancini when he’d record in London. I learned a lot about the mechanics of writing for film from Hank – using streamers, timing sheets, and how music worked with film; what things worked and what didn’t. I saw the disasters, the difficulty composers had with film producers. I played on many John Barry scores including his first, “Beat Girl”. Also on the James Bond films, “The Whisperers” and such. Did you play the saxophone on these films? The sax and the flutes – I was sort of a ‘flute star’ at that time. How did you come to score your first film, “A Study in Terror”? I did a promotional film called “Shella-Rama” which turned out quite well. The producer of that recommended me to Herman Cohen, who produced “A Study in Terror”. You did other films for Herman Cohen (including “Trog” and “Berserk”). He kept you busy for a while… Yes, but I’m now embarrassed by some of those horror scores. Often I did what Cohen wanted and not what I would have liked to have done musically. With my music I like to give a film what it hasn’t got, not what it already has. Some of those horror scores consisted of ‘stings’ when you saw the knife and such. That’s too obvious. Early in your scores you went by the name Patrick John Scott. Now it’s just John Scott. Why the change? It’s proved confusing to some film music buffs. My full name is Patrick John Michael O’Hara Scott. In the army I was called ‘Scotty’ or ‘Johnny’. When I started writing music for film, I felt there were a lot of composers named John or Johnny – there still are – so I used Patrick. But people objected for some reason, so I changed it to just John Scott. I’d like to change my name now as it seems there are too many John Scotts. But I guess there are a lot of people named John Williams and it hasn’t hurt him… What are some of your favorite scores and best collaborations with filmmakers? I think one of my best scores is “Antony and Cleopatra” which I did for Peter Snell and Charlton Heston. “Rocket to the Moon” for Don Sharp was great fun, and I also like “England Made Me”. Do you use orchestrators even though you’ve had extensive experience as an arranger? The first time I used an orchestrator was for the American TV movie “The Hostage Tower”. I gave him few options, though, and hired him partly because I was told that in Hollywood you’re nobody unless you have an orchestrator. I don’t like anyone changing my own ‘sound’, yet a composer can derive a lot from orchestrators. I did “Final Countdown” myself since for me it’s faster that way. I love your music for “North Dallas Forty”. One of the most impressive things about it is the concept of that score – a ‘bluesy’, understated score which defines the burned-out football player played by Nick Nolte. Actually that concept came to me very easily. That film was for Ted Kotcheff. I did “The Outback” for him, which I like a lot – it had a very small orchestra trying different things – it had texture, much like Ligeti, Penderecki. Ted Kotcheff allowed me to try that. When it came to “North Dallas Forty” it was felt the film really wasn’t about football, but about a loser. I believe “North Dallas Forty” was the only film you actually recorded here in the U.S. Are you hoping for more work here in America? Yes, I started renting this house here when I wrote the score for a Brooke Shields TV movie, “Wet Gold” – a score that was eventually replaced by a synthesizer score. (By Sylvester Levay.) Let’s discuss “Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan”. I’d worked with Hugh Hudson on some TV commercials and we’d had a good working relationship. I did an unrelated feature for him and he asked me to do “Greystoke”. He showed me an early cut of it and I was bowled over. Hudson’s brother, a London music critic, had chosen classical music for the film so I saw it with music by Holst, Ravel, Varèse, Elgar. My reaction was that music pulled me away from the film rather than drawing me into it. Hugh had very specific ideas – he saw the film as an opera, a tragedy – Tristan and Isolde. He’d send me music to listen to, such as Nino Rota’s “The Leopard” and music by Wagner. It seemed he was secure with me, since we could communicate while at the same time he was insecure about what I was going to do. I was forced to do certain things – Hudson insisted on the Gross Fugue when Tarzan is suffering anguish at Greystoke and is riding his horse wildly. I felt the sound effects, Tarzan shouting, plus that music… it all didn’t work. I told Hugh I’d record those scenes two ways, first with the fugue and then with music I’d written for the scene. You see what he ended up with. I wrote a lot of music that wasn’t used; in fact there was a lot of the film itself that wasn’t used. Hugh insisted I use Elgar and I wasn’t happy about that. I don’t think it works very well. I have a magazine criticism that was written about the soundtrack record that I’m going to have enlarged and put up on my wall. It says “Greystoke” may have been a better score if the director had more faith in his composer. We live now in a film world of preconceived ideas. Now even in scripts it says what kind of music is required. If a composer can interpret these ideas in a satisfactory way he’s O.K., but he may often have better ideas of his own. Nevertheless, I’m not unhappy with “Greystoke”, but I think I could have done better if given a free hand. I enjoy listening to the record now, forgetting about the disagreements. You’ve done some fine scores for Jacques Cousteau specials and other documentaries. I assume these are satisfying projects to work on… Yes, working with Cousteau was a great thrill. Before that I’d done a series with Jane Goodall, the first being “The Wild Dogs of Africa”. I was offered a documentary called “A Time Bomb at 50 Fathoms” which I found very disappointing, because I was expecting a film with marine life and beautiful picture, but it was more of a ‘pollution of the plant’ ecology film. Audiences wanted to be entertained and not lectured to, so the film wasn’t very well received. However, I did like the experience of scoring that film and other documentaries since for the first time I was totally trusted to write what I wanted and left to my own judgement. I felt I was really appreciated. I also developed a good relationship with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra which continues to this day. Later came much better films. One I really love, and I love the music I wrote for it, is “Clipperton: The Island That Time Forgot” and another good documentary, a very beautiful film, called “The Warm-Blooded Sea”. These are amongst my best work. The “Amazon” expedition was exciting, with that I dared to do a more contemporary score with the use of ethnic instruments, some rhythm. Jacques Cousteau was used to having more traditional scores in his films, but as it turned out he loved what I wrote. Soon I’m doing his 75th Birthday Tribute which I’ll have 2 weeks to write. How specific are documentary filmmakers when they discuss music with you? Do they ask for a certain mood, or what? With a Cousteau film, for example, the composer is working at the same time the writer is writing the script, so I’m looking at a piece of film that could mean almost anything. What I generally do is listen to audio notes that Jacques Cousteau records, describing what he was feeling and what he would like as he watches the film. The editor also has given me some idea of where music would be beneficial, when sound effects will be used and also some specific ideas. “Yor: Hunter from the Future” seems to have been a real mess, judging by the hodge-podge mix of music that it ended up having. I assume you wrote a score and then the Italian De Angelis brothers were brought in later to hype things up a bit… Actually I enjoyed “Yor”, I felt I could make it into a better film. I also enjoyed working in Italy, which is where I wrote the score. I’m proud of the score I did, but perhaps it could have been performed better by the musicians in Italy. I believe the De Angelis brothers sold Columbia Pictures on the idea of adding ‘heavy metal’ and since Columbia didn’t really know where they were going with the film, they went with them. I felt let down, because I think my score lifted the film into something more than was otherwise there. The final score, which ended up being seven-tenths De Angelis and there-tenths my score, let the film down. The movie never was a masterpiece. How did you get involved with “Yor” anyway? Through my agents, who eat at the same place as the producers from Columbia. The producers wanted a composer who was in Europe, so my agents recommended me. Have you had any other experiences like “Yor”? Any other scores rejected in whole or in part? I scored “S*P*Y*S”, which ended up with a Jerry Goldsmith score in the United States. It was an Anglo-American co-production. The Americans saw the film one way, the English producers another and the director, Irvin Kershner, was in the middle. I wrote a contemporary-sounding, rhythm-oriented, caper-type score using a small orchestra. The Americans wanted something else. I never heard what Jerry Goldsmith wrote but would like to very much. Then there was “Wet Gold”, the Brooke Shields TV movie I mentioned earlier. The producer told me he wanted a “Key Largo”-type sultry score. They gave me 2 weeks to write forty minutes of music. I used a full orchestra with some synthesizer and some strange sounds. I barely got through five seconds into recording the first cue when the producers were telling me things like, “John, when the jellyfish comes in we want a little ‘warble’”, and “John, it sounds too big”, and a list of things like that. I just think they saw things differently than I did and I was the wrong composer for them. I never finished recording the score after going into a lot of overtime and re-writing. Sylvester Levay had literally hours to come up with a score, since the film had a definite air-day on the network. He did it all in about three days and did the best he could. Sylvester is a very good friend and he told me he almost killed himself trying to do it so fast. Who are your favorite composers? I just love music, all kinds of music. My least favorite music is operetta and I don’t have much time for ‘punk’, but there’s a lot of good rock and soul music. There’s far less conception of melody, though, in contemporary rock music – it really is the same five notes and the same three chords. I like music that communicates to me. So-called ‘intellectual’ music loses me. A few composers I enjoy are Hayden, Bartok, Shubert, Stravinsky, Wagner, Richard Strauss, certain music of The Police. Iron Maiden. Synthesized music of Isao Tomita. I read an interview you did with Alex North and I agree with him about using synthesizers with an orchestra, they are another instrument. As far as film composers are concerned, I greatly admire John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, and Alex North. I get a lot out of the things I hear from James Horner, he’s done some very interesting things. I did not care much for his score for “The Dresser”, though. One piece of film music I find absolutely tremendous is “In Cold Blood” by Quincy Jones. “Planet of the Apes” by Goldsmith is very individual, very artistic. Also, his “Man from U.N.C.L.E.” music was so exciting. “E.T.” by Williams was a very good score. Here’s a question I always like to ask composers: What films do you wish you could have scored? Well, “The Dresser”. Also “That Championship Season”. I’d love to do a film like “Star Wars”, something larger than life. “Yor” and “Greystoke” weren’t like that. One of my favorites among your scores is “The Final Countdown”. I wrote a lot of music for that film while they were still filming it and doing the special effects. For quite a few scenes I wrote 3 or 4 ‘musical options’, hoping one would work with that they ended up visually. The mix wasn’t too good on that film – they tried to put too much into it. I’d like to see the film again to see what I’d think now. There were some extremely exciting aspects to the movie musically, like the air battles. Do you go to the final dubbing sessions for the pictures you score? Sometimes, but I think maybe I shouldn’t. Bill Conti was right when he told me composers are hired to write the music, and then the filmmakers do what they want with it. If you go to the dubbing you only get your heart broken. But I must say the most important thing is the film itself. If silence works better than music in a scene, then there should be silence. I think music must add – if it’s doing nothing for a score then it’s invariably distracting from it. I will often drop music, which surprises many people. After all, the film audience is not going to a concert. If a composer feels so strongly about having his music heard, he should write for the concert hall. Having said that, I do love it when music shrieks out in a film, but even then it’s doing a job while it’s shrieking out. You’re on the edge of your seat, the strings are soaring away. It’s a glorious thing, something very emotional.