So, I'm speaking once again with Oscar-winning composer Elliot Goldenthal, who really needs no introduction, but I'll give it a try. His brilliant music has been behind films such as "Pet Sematary", "Alien 3", "Batman Forever", "Heat", "A Time to Kill", "Titus", "Frida", "Across the Universe", "Public Enemies", "The Tempest", and now, he and Julie Taymor take on Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". Away from film, Elliot has done amazing work for stage and ballet. He composed the music for the acclaimed three-act ballet Othello; he also did the music for the play “Grounded” which is also directed by Julie and stars Anne Hathaway. Last month he also had a symphony in G-sharp minor released on CD, and earlier this year Elliot received the ASCAP Founders Award at this year's award ceremony, where a longtime collaborator, Michael Mann, presented him with the honor. Elliot, it's so great to chat again. Thanks for your time. Yes, it's nice to speak to you. Yeah. So, I would love to jump right into "A Midsummer Night's Dream" which was, you know, directed by Julie, and it's a going to be shown in theaters as part of Fathom Events; one night only this Monday, June 22nd, and, you know, Fathom Events is in many theaters; most AMCs will be holding it, so, listeners, be sure to check for tickets. But, so for "Midsummer Night's Dream", now, would you say this is a stage adaptation or a film adaptation? Because the aesthetic presentation is very stunning and original. It's both. It's a filming of the theatrical event, but after it was filmed – it was by a four cameras; Rodrigo Prieto, who shot "Frida" for us, and he did "The Wolf of Wall Street", etc. He's a very very well-honored cinematographer. Julie created this event which is very filmic; it feels like you're on stage with the actors, practically. The thing is when it goes into the realm of cinema, for me, is there was, you know, hundreds and hundreds of reaction shots. And all of those reaction shots had to be scored by something that I didn't have on the stage, because on a stage the audience is primarily looking at the actor who's doing the talking and is writing the emotion of that event. Now, everything has shifted, so you can, you know, feel the emotions of the reactor who is being spoken to, so sometimes the emotion is quite opposite than the spokee, you know? So I created a new palette, a new challenge for me to compose a fresh score cinematically. So, I mean, it was recorded and it was presented to an audience in a stage presentation, so did you write music for the stage presentation, and – I did; they did it without music, so I can compose new music for the film where they need it. Wow. That's so interesting. So you and Julie, you know, have been together and have worked together for many many years, and have done so much great stuff. What is the process like, working with her? When she, you know, puts on her director's hat and you your composer's hat; are you there kind of every step of the way from conception of the idea all the way to the end, or does she kind of go off and build something... Well, I am, but when it comes to the theater, it's something that you have to – it's sort of like Gold's Gym of composing. You have to be there on the spot, and just sort of feel your right way through. There's no formula, there's no final cut so to speak; you just, you know, just be there from the very beginning and start composing and have everything ready. But as far as the “The Tempst” is concerned, it was already an hour-plus music written for it in the theater. Now I had to write an hour-plus music that was specially for the film, because it had a different character. Right, absolutely. And I mean, obviously the worlds of stage and film have a differences, but the film, you know, you're mentioning you get to see a lot picture; you get to spot the music and you get something to attach music to. But with a play, when do you start writing music? Do you wait till the blocking is finished and kind of see a whole run kind of acted out, or…? Yeah, yeah, sort of. And I did a bit of two things. I had a bunch of stuff with her for Anne Hathaway, and again I recorded her. She came over to my house and recorded the whole thing so I can compose it to her performance like a radio play, like the way Bernard Herrmann used to do perhaps with Orson Welles. So I got to hear her performance or rhythms so I can compose to them and I brought to score in. So she listened to it and adjusted her timing from scene to scene, so she was in sync just like a movie score which is, you know, indelibly out on the film, and this way she could kind of recite her lines live to fixed music, and it was just wonderful. She has a great ear anyway. Wow, that's so amazing. So you're kind of scoring to the delivery of her performance, just the voice lines. Right, right. That's fantastic and so, I mean there was “Othello” and you're doing “Midnight Summer’s Dream”, so you’ve done quite a few Shakespeares. Now, would you say that some Shakespeares lend themselves better to music than others? Oh, yes! Shakespeare was very very specific in asking where some music is, for example, and instrumental music, in “Midsummer”, and also “Tempest”. He was kind of very specific. That doesn’t mean I didn’t compose additional music, but he suggested a lot of places. And “Othello” is a ballet, and it’s three acts for the ballet, and solos and duets, etc. etc. So it takes place over a period of two-three hours in an evening of music. And a big house like the Metropolitan Opera House – it’s daunting to know that I’m composing for this giant house, but at the root of it is the drama that Shakespeare laid out, you know? And, yes, there are Shakespeare that lend themselves more to music and extreme emotion, etc. etc., but some are really really difficult – these history plays and stuff. It’s a different animal. Yeah, I can imagine; it’s about the spoken word, so I feel like it would be such a huge challenge to tackle any Shakespeare, I think. But, moving on from that, you recently released on CD your magnificent Symphony in G-sharp Minor. Now, in this instance, there’s no image; it’s pure music and nothing else. So where does the music come from in this instance? What are you thinking about to make the notes pour out of you? Well, it’s motivic, and it’s like – I don’t want to sound like a god or anything like that, but it’s like creating the universe in the sense that you have a small motive, or a small organism or something – in my case, a music motive. And I start with that and build and build and expand and expand until I have a dramatic universe of music that – it’s a different way of writing that dramatic music, whether it be opera, ballet, or something that’s precipitated by the spoken word. It’s built upon small, small, little motivic cells. And is it – I mean, is there images in your mind when you’re writing the music? Are you kind of thinking of certain emotions, or…? No. No, no. I’m not. But it’s still – I think about the emotional arc for some things, but I’m not thinking about any specific emotion. That’s very interesting. And you’ve done so much great work on stage and the concert, but you have noticeably stepped into this world away from films; I think your last traditional film was “The Tempest”, and then you had “Public Enemies” with Michael Mann. But is there a reason you’ve decided to focus on stage and concert music instead of film for a while? Well, I’m been also doing projects that I just didn’t see doing, and the general music world and world of symphonic music is very exciting to me. And also, I spent the last few years doing many large film music concerts, festivals. There’s one in Krakow Poland; they did my Shakespeare scores. Before that, in Spain and then in Prague I conducted “Alien 3” there. So I haven’t turned my back on film or film music at all, and I’m happy to refine the scores into suites so that if it’s performed it makes musical sense. And it’s not easy; you have to build in new transitions or musical bridges to get from one scene to the next without it sounding cuey. Yeah, and your “Alien 3”, I remember from Krakow or Spain – it was a fantastic presentation of it. And I that Krakow is doing it, and Spain, they’re doing these great concerts and we’re seeing film music in a different light. And I think it’s such an interesting way to – at least for me – consume that. And the [unintelligible] film music; otherwise they gave me the first Kilar prize this year there. And that takes in film music and non-film music. It’s a prize in Kilar’s name; you might know his work from “Dracula”, for example. And many, many, many other scores, and “The Pianist”, for example. And it’s an award that will honor composers who are also following their personal music in the classical stage as well as the screen, so it’s encouraging the type of career that I’ve been aspiring to. Wow, that’s amazing. But before we wrap up, I want to mention the amazing night you had – actually, I was at the ASCAP Awards this year taking pictures of you and Michael Mann on the red carpet. I didn’t get a chance to introduce myself in person. And I wanted to ask you something, because Michael’s last film started a little musical discussion on the internet. Composer Harry Gregson-Williams signed up to do the film and made a post in a state of disappointment that, at the premiere, he found out almost all of his music had been removed and replaced. Michael Mann gave a reply saying that he utilized many composers and that it was right for the film. And since you and Michael have a good working relationship with him, I was wondering, what side do you sympathize with more? The angry composer who found out his music was replaced, or the auteur director who is doing what feels right for the film? Well, I don’t have an opinion because I wasn’t on his last film… “Blackhat”, was it? I wasn’t a part of that and I don’t know the machinations that went on behind the scenes. I know that it’s possible to be disappointed; I know that Michael Mann makes a lot of last-minute changes. He’s right to make changes. He’s the director. When you go into it – when I go into it, personally, I expect these changes to happen. I look at it like, you’re offered a very, very exciting possibility, but you have to be expecting these types of radical changes to happen. You know, it’s like someone offers you a fantastic opportunity to go on a trek in the South Pole. Sounds very exciting, but you can’t complain the weather when you get there. So I don’t have any side, but I know the conditions, and the conditions – you have to be prepared as a composer to be subjected to changes. And personally – I know I make a lot of changes in my own music, in my own personal work, so I don’t think there’s something wrong with a director making changes and changes and changes and changes. Some directors are more prone to that and others are not, and there were a lot of changes in so many films that I made by a host of directors. Sometimes, Neil Jordan in a particular movie I wrote, “Interview with a Vampire”, it was hardly any alterations. And a movie like “Butcher Boy”, which I adore, I was tinkering with that stuff over and over again until it was close to the release date. So there’s no particular one director or one project that owns the world’s champ on changing things. Also, it was difficult to work on “Heat” when you were working on it. But at the same time, Michael Mann gave me a great opportunity before the music was scored for the movie, he made sure there was a budget in it so I could do experiments. Experiments with guitars in a very unconventional way for months and months before I even started working. That was a very, very lucky thing to be involved in, and it created a lot of opportunities in terms of discovery. And, in the future projects where you’ve worked with him, has he done that before, where he gets you on beforehand and lets you start tinkering before he starts shooting, or was that kind of a one-time thing for “Heat”? No, that was a one-off thing on “Heat”, because on “Heat” he wanted to break new ground. On “Public Enemies” he wanted to capture the era, you know, 1920s and ’30s and that era more than that experimenting with futuristic music. I really love “Heat” and the way your music works, and I think Lisa Gerrard is on there and other composers which, the whole soundscape works perfectly. It’s a masterpiece of film and music, so… again, Elliot, I’m out of questions for you, but thank you so much for your time and for all the music and congratulations on all these recent achievements; it’s such a wonderful thing to see it and hear it well for us as listeners. Thanks. Nice talking to you.