Elliot, simplest – most simple question by now. What is your momentary favorite instrument in case of orchestration? When you think of orchestration. What’s one of your favorite instruments?
That one. [points to wine glass]
[Laughter]
No, no, I’m serious. The sound of the glass when you rub it with dry hands. There was an American diplomat called Benjamin Franklin and he invented an instrument called a glass harmonica. It plays like a -- you move your foot like a sewing machine. And this tube of glass moves around and you play with your hands. And it has a very ethereal sound. And it’s a beautiful sound. And actually Mozart wrote for that instrument.
Oh, for that instrument?
Mozart, yeah. And I love the sound because –
So you used it?
In many movies: “Across the Universe”, “Alien 3”, “Titus”, “Drugstore Cowboy”.
So when you started doing music, did you ever think about being innovative or very different with some of your projects? Or did that just came across with some stuff like “Alien 3”? Because that’s not what you get usually in film music. That’s very different. Did you always want to do that kind of music?
I started mainly writing in the theater. And in the theater, if 90 people show up, or a small theater, and you work with very avant-garde or experimental directors, you operate in that fashion. So the directors that asked me to work with, like David Fincher in “Alien 3”, he was expecting that type of music. He wasn’t looking for a typical sound. As well as before that, I worked on a movie, “Drugstore Cowboy”, with Gus Van Sant. He also was expecting something that was unlike Hollywood or some European composers.
So in those projects, or nowadays, is there still inspiration for you? Because that’s something that is missing today, I guess. The inspiration you get when you sit in front of a movie, you’re just doing standards. Or is there still inspiration? Or do you just let go when you write?
I don’t trust inspiration. Never trust a prostitute, and never trust inspiration. Because they both carry a knife. So that’s very important to rely on technique and honesty in terms of your approach to the movie. Honesty is the most important thing.
Speaking of technique, your music has a very organic quality, like it’s coming from the gut, really. So how do you achieve this, writing music?
I asked my dog.
Without being disrespectful to your question, I think you try to be sympatico with the performance of the artist. For example, the last movie I did was “Tempest” with Helen Mirren. And she’s a really great artist, and she’s a really great actress. So when you watch her eyes and expression, you have to create an organic connection between the artist and yourself.
Particularly about “The Tempest”, for me, it was like an operatic approach to the theatre, with songs and all the experimentation with words. You came from completing Grendel a few years before. Is this thought correct, I mean, this operatic approach to Shakespeare in this “Tempest”?
The connection between Grendel and “Tempest” – there’s no connection. However, Shakespeare was very specific in writing songs and saying where the music should be. As if it was a musical. “Tempest” was one of the few places where Shakespeare did a production in the indoor theatre, which had also sort of traps and gadgets and technology that you don’t associate with Shakespeare outdoor theatre. So he specifically states where each song should be. The only thing I did was two things extra. I used -- Prospero’s last speech I set to music. And also I used work from another play, ‘O Mistress Mine’, earlier that was originally from a play called Twelve Night. Tempest and Midsummer Night’s Dream was the most musical of Shakespeare’s plays. Of course, I set Othello as a ballet, but specifically Shakespeare was very careful in specifying where the music should be. Even the orchestration. He said, This character shows up with drums or flutes, etc. etc.
When you write an opera or theatre music, is it easy for you to switch into theatre mode? Because there are a lot of symphonies out there or theatre works done by composers who actually did film music before. And I always hear film music instead of serious theatre music. So is that easy for you to switch over to the theatre mode? I think you did Fire Water Paper, that thing before. Is it easy for you to switch into theatre mode without sounding filmic?
Well in film you have to take into account that you have a collaboration situation with the director, the picture. When you’re doing personal work, that one obstacle is eliminated so it becomes completely personal. Whether it sounds like film music or not is up to the listener. For example, for me, I was a great lover of the music of Bernard Herrmann. He wrote an opera. And I wish the opera sounded more like film music to me. To me. To me.
But it doesn’t.
It doesn’t. But I don’t think it’s a quality -- it’s not an analysis of quality. Whether something sounds like film music or The Beatles or Michael Jackson or Wagner or Schopenhauer or whatever, you know, philosophy. Whatever. It’s a personal trait. If you meet a person in a bar, if you meet a person on the street and you respond to their voice or their eyes or their personality, it’s nice to hear it in an opera or a film.
What are the criteria for which you choose to accept an assignment nowadays for film? Of course, it occurred to me that in the ‘90s you are scoring far more movies than nowadays. Is there a change? Are you demanding more of a movie to attract you to score it?
Well, it’s hard to answer because in the last year, I composed “Tempest”. A year before that, “Public Enemies”. In between that, I was working on – I’m still working on a project with Julie Taymor called “Transposed Heads” based on Thomas Mann’s novella that he wrote in 1947. My time is always taken up. I don’t enjoy to compose action movies.
That’s interesting because you did a lot of them.
I did, I –
You did a lot of just, let’s go totally mad.
Two “Batmans”, “Demolition Man”, things like this. But the sound effects, it’s crazy. As opposed to a movie like “Frida” or “Drugstore Cowboy” or “Butcher Boy” with Neil Jordan where you have a more intimate relationship within character. Not always interacting and fighting with the sound effects.
Because I always thought that when I listened to “Batman” or “Demolition Man” or whatever, that always sounded in the action moments that sounded like, you know, Elliot Goldenthal doing this or, come on, Fuck the movie, I’m just like doing loud music.
No, no, no. I always try my best and I always put my true self into what I’m doing. I never take the assignment lightly.
Yeah, always take it seriously.
I always take – I always do my best. However, you have an obstacle of sound effects quite often. It’s very difficult to...
In the case of orchestration, you always found... That’s what I ask myself, because there are so many orchestrators out there who work with composers together. There was one project where one composer and, I don’t know, 10 different orchestrators involved. Why are there so many orchestrators these days? Do composers have little time or does it depend? I don’t know. Because I think you always just use, like, Bob Elhai, one orchestrator at...
I do it myself or I do it with Bob Elhai.
Together?
Sometimes together. And he’s a very brilliant man. One time I asked him to write orchestration. We went over in detail and he went into a room and shut the door. I heard him talking to his wife. I said, Fucking Bob; he has to work! What is he doing now? I opened the door. His feet was on the chair… [puts feet on table]
Perfect image.
And he was talking to his wife, and with his left hand he was doing the orchestration. And the orchestration was perfect. So –
That’s a perfect relationship. Sometimes you do. When you phone you sometimes write something like that. That’s inspiration. That’s inspiration.
That’s real talent. And when we started he was my assistant. And I wrote one page of orchestration; he would write one page of orchestration. Today I can write one page of orchestration. He’ll write 17 pages at the same time, you know?
They’re trained to do that.
Yeah. However, it’s very important for a composer to have a very – understanding of what orchestration is, what the sound of the orchestra will be. And you’ll hear it tonight.
I have a question. What program do you use when you compose? For me it’s very interesting. What musical program?
My favorite program? I experimented through the years. I found that the best program is the eraser on the back of the pencil.
That’s good. That’s very nice. I like that, because it’s very nice to hear that there are still composers who write with pen, because this is very important I think.
Sometimes if I’m writing a melody that’s very important to a movie like “Frieda”, I like to work with a pen or pencil. When I work with an action movie, the computer is very helpful. Because the element of time is a very different element. You need to be very precise.
In terms of orchestration, one of your characteristics of your music that I prefer most is that it’s a melting pot of styles and environments. Let me explain this. It’s contemporary music meets street music meets folklore music meets rock and roll. And this is something that expanded the language of music in the ‘90s. I don’t know, it’s not a question --maybe to talk about how you blend all these different styles and you let street music and popular culture meet the contemporary concert music. Avant-garde contemporary concert music. You always say ‘composing as collision’.
Sometimes. I’ve said it once.
You said it. It’s repeated all the time.
Very good question. The reason is because I think, for me, I was brought up and lived in Brooklyn, New York. And Brooklyn, New York has a very multicultural collision of people living together. So, in the same way, if I go to a library or go to a concert hall and listen to Schoenberg or listen to Mahler or Mozart, at the same time I go home and my girlfriend is listening to hip hop. Listening to salsa, listening to fado, etc. Listening to, you know, etc. etc. So this is so – collisions that I hear. So for me it’s completely natural to reflect what I hear. Bach, you know, only lived in Leipzig or something like this. His whole life maybe he traveled 200 miles from there. But imagine if Bach went to India or Africa, what kind of amazing music he would have composed with an absolute genius that he was.
You have your own label, Zarathustra Music. What’s your plan with this label? Perhaps you plan to release Grendel for instance?
It gives me more flexibility. Because other labels, for example, in terms of money, they take 90%, 95% of the composer’s money. And in my case, at least I have a chance to fail myself. And also I can creatively put out what I want to put out. So it’s – Grendel. I saw on the internet, on Google, someone has an album of Grendel already. I haven’t heard it. I don’t know where it comes from. But it has all the titles, it has all the photographs, everything, you know? If you go to the subway station in Moscow, you can probably buy it.
So if you’re thinking about releasing it legally?
Yes, I’d love to. It would be legal for one day. And after that, it’s everyone’s.